This past June, Ljubica wanted to talk about our kids attending summer camps. Below, more or less, is the conversation we had. Ultimately, the conversation had little to do with summer camps.

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L. I want to take Ivan to an acting class…. I don’t need to think about when I took the kids to school, when I picked them up, when I did something for the kids, when I cooked for them, when I washed their clothes. I’m not asking myself about those things, if you want to know, because I’ve been here and I’m still here.

Me. And where is Ivan going to go to acting class? What’s the place?

L. Second City.

Me. Second City?

L. Uh huh. And I’ll take care of that. You don’t need to interfere in that at all. It’s mine. If I register him, if they have space.

Me. You can take the kids to vacation Bible school.

L. What?

Me. You can take the kids to vacation Bible school, at Living Stone Christian Church, but the kids aren’t going to go to Living Stone on Sundays.

L. When they’re with me, they’ll go.

Me. While we’re together, they’re going to go with me to Jackson Boulevard Christian Church.

L. No. While we’re together, they’re not going to go anywhere. We said so.

Me. No. No, we didn’t say that.

L. Yes, we did. I did it with our lawyers.

Me. No, we didn’t say that. We said that we wouldn’t take the kids to church until after mediation. Mediation is over now.

L. No. We said the kids wouldn’t go to church until everything is finished. I said so.

Me. We didn’t agree on that.

L. Okay. Another phone call, another letter doesn’t cost me anything to write. No, they’re not going to go to Jackson Boulevard because you’re not going to Jackson Boulevard. You’re going to the Catholics. What do you want to take the kids to Jackson Boulevard for?

Me. Because I want to take them to church.

L. Why aren’t you taking them to the Catholics?

Me. Because I…

L. Why aren’t you going to them? No. Yes. Why change to Jackson Boulevard when they when they have one there they have a church.

Me. Yes, they have one. But you wanted to malign me.

L. What about you? What did you do? No, you maligned yourself there, if you want to know. I didn’t malign you at all but you maligned yourself in the way…. They saw how you care for someone, how you treat a person.

Me. What?

L. They saw for themselves how you treated me, the way you went forward and talked in the presence of the children. All of them saw it themselves. I didn’t open my mouth. Go and talk to the preacher, go. I didn’t open my mouth to talk to anyone except Amy and Cathy whom I needed to talk to someone. And you said that I wrote to thirty women in the church, that I maligned you to thirty women. There aren’t thirty women, not even fifteen, if you count them.

Me. You sent an email to all of those women saying that I hurt you every day.

L. To all of those women? What did I know about who was there in the email? Big deal that I sent an email. Who have you sent email to? Can you count the churches in Idaho and in Tennessee…? The kids will either go to Living Stone. While we’re together, they won’t go anywhere at all, anywhere at all. Big deal. They aren’t going to go to Jackson Boulevard right now. And when I’m divorced, then when you have your house and I have mine and when you have the kids during the weekend, I’m not going to get interfere. But the children now no, no. Are they still asking why we’re not going to church? What do they know about Jackson Boulevard? Are you joking? Think about the kids a little bit. Don’t think just about yourself, yourself that I maligned you. You maligned me, too. You maligned me everywhere. But I still went out in front of people. Those people got up and came, both from Living Stone and from Clinton Elementary, those people that you went to saying, “Ooh watch out, watch out because she went crazy.” They came and watched Agnes dance. Why didn’t you call and invite anyone? Who came to support you? Think about the kids a little bit. I mean it. Don’t look at me like that. Think about the kids. Don’t think about me. You don’t have anything to put me out there in…. But think about the kids a little so as not to make it more difficult. And the friendships that they created big deal that you ruined them with someone, big deal that my friendships with who knows who were ruined. I’m not worried about them, about that issue, at all, not at all, if the children’s friendships aren’t ruined. Because not one of the people that you talked to bothered to call me and ask, “How are you?” No one at all. There were just the people that I called to me, to ask them how they’re doing. And the people from Living Stone aren’t calling me, none of them. And I haven’t called anyone either. Why? Because of what you told them. They believed you, your lies; they believed your lies. I don’t need to go to anyone to give testimony, to talk. A joke. I’m telling you: if you want to make it easier—I’m not looking to argue with you because I can see that you don’t care at all; I’ve seen you at these meetings. But, if you want to finish it more quickly and get on with your life, stop being so stiff-necked.

Me. And how do you see this getting resolved?

L. By deciding to not seek to say, “me, me, me, me, me.” And, “you, you there, stay there. I get the kids. I did this. I did that. I found the doctors. I did this. I found the schools.” And where was I? Didn’t I come here from Tennessee—that mistreatment—with you so that you could go to your school and the next day we went to visit schools? But no, I was kicking back relaxing the whole time you were doing that. That mistreatment of moving from Bosnia to go to Tennessee and to Idaho and for all of us to go there. Agnes was born and you weren’t able to give three or four hundred dollars to make my delivery easier. And get on the bus, and I went there, I went there to find on the last day I found the doctor myself. You didn’t find him. I found him, I found him. And in Bosnia I would have found all of them myself if I were there. Don’t make joke at me. Don’t bullshit me because I’m here and I know these things. And I didn’t go, as heavy as I was, to find a doctor. I know a hundred places. And I don’t get stuck. Fortunately, our kids are healthy. They’re not sick. To get them one checkup a year, huh? What is that? They bring doctors to school; they do those things through the school. That’s nothing. What would you do if one of the kids had some kind of disease that demanded taking him there regularly? When did you take our kids to the emergency room or whatever our kids? You’re not joking, are you? Don’t, don’t make it like all these thousands of dollars are being spent for a little, for nothing, for nothing, nothing, nothing at all. I’ve told you from the beginning: for nothing. And now look! You’re fighting to talk to people and are frantic to defend yourself. Will you tell me what I did with these kids, what? Don’t make me think about myself whether I was or wasn’t because I was here and I’m going to be here. And if I have to fight for them for hundreds of years, if God lets me live, I’m going to fight. Because you don’t know what it is to be a mother. Don’t joke around with me about those things. Don’t obligate me. Fortunately, people are seeing and hearing and helping and helping me and are going to help me. For your own delight. Look at where you want to go for your own selfishness. And I no one is stopping you. No one is stopping you. Go. Go. Get on with your life. But don’t destroy these two kids more. For me—garbage. I was—do you know what I was for you? One of those—what do they call them?—a paper cup. That’s how much you … me—a paper cup that you lose, that you throw on the street. Or maybe you never used it and just threw it out. It got covered up with dust there. I’m not going to let my kids be like that. I’m not fighting to to gain that care of yours for me and whatever. Not at all. And take notes and surely you’re recording. Record. I don’t care. I don’t care. Take your phone. Hold it like that. Enough. Enough. I’m not ashamed to look you in the eye. I’m not ashamed at all. Because I remained faithful the whole time. Those small promises that I gave you—if I gave them to you—I kept them. Think about yourself and ask what what you did to me. Okay? Like that. Wait for when I fall down on the ground. Just wait for when you can say, “Look, she fell, she fell down. Didn’t I tell you?” That’s it? That’s love for a person, for a “sister in Christ” and things that you, you call? Just to wait for when a person falls on the ground? Are you going to count up how many minutes I’ve spent talking? Count them. Sigh. I don’t know.

Me. To say…

L. Do you know what? It’s hard for me to lay eyes on you. Hard. I don’t want to sit at the table and eat with you. I feel like… I feel like throwing up with I see you, if you want to know. Know that. And I put up with it like that.